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Home » Bay Area Autocross Forum » Northern California Events » SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 (More than a few DNF's from missing key parts of the courses ...)
Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122181 is a reply to message #122178] Mon, 06 August 2018 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
red5racing is currently offline  red5racing   United States
Messages: 561
Registered: May 2008
Location: Los Altos
Sixth Gear

From: 12.33.222*
It's certainly an instructor's job to track down anyone doing multiple DNF's, other clubs will say you get an instructor whether you want one or not after 2 DNF's. I rode through with one person that clearly DNF'd , but it seemed like the corner-workers missed it and it wasn't called. We'll see if shows up in the results.

Fake slaloms fool a lot of newbs. On Sunday the first turnaround fooled people into going left, rather than the long way around. There 4 cone column in the middle of the course seemed to send people the wrong way too.






Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122182 is a reply to message #122181] Mon, 06 August 2018 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tigermack is currently offline  tigermack   
Messages: 2839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
It's not really fake if the pointers are in place. lol

Mack Tsang
13 BRZ #188
05 Mazda3 FSP #188 - retired
prevs. 07 Mazdaspeed & 95 BMW STX #188

http://www.youtube.com/user/tigermack

Sandbagger #1
Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122183 is a reply to message #122171] Mon, 06 August 2018 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hracer is currently offline  Hracer   United States
Messages: 283
Registered: December 2006
Location: San Francisco
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From: *static.wiline.com
In my opinion, this was hand down the best nationals practice course I've ran at Crows this year. It most definitely required several elements that squarely come in to play at nationals:

- made great use of the Crows site to facilitate having a course with bunch of sweepers that we see on the square lots in Lincoln
- very important to learn the course during the walk and know the line in your head
- look ahead while driving
- learn to anticipate and set up for the next elements
- had some deceivingly quick sections that were easy to slow down too much for and not maximize your speed through them

We were not there on Sunday, but thanks again for the wonderfully appropriate course on Saturday!


Alex
#181 SSR
Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122184 is a reply to message #122183] Mon, 06 August 2018 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Youmna is currently offline  Youmna
Messages: 91
Registered: January 2018
Location: San Jose
Second Gear

From: 172.58.32*
I can't speak for Saturday, but I thought Sunday's course was good. I DNF'd my first run before the last turnaround because I failed to look ahead enough to negotiate my way into the last slalom. That's on me, not the course.

We had one totally new person DNF all four of his runs in RG 1. I told him to make sure to find an instructor if he wasn't sure, but it's more on us to get someone else in his car when we see two DNFs in a row.
That said, our instructors were probably busy all morning, between the VET Motorsports people, the novices, and the Sac and Fresno people who weren't familiar with the location and size of the course, so I'm not surprised if someone - or even a few people - slipped between the cracks. A possible solution would be to have additional instructors available next time we anticipate such a large turnout.
Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122185 is a reply to message #122183] Mon, 06 August 2018 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
2159ClassicRed is currently offline  2159ClassicRed   
Messages: 316
Registered: January 2007
Location: Fresno CA
Fourth Gear

From: *hfc.comcastbusiness.net
Hracer wrote on Mon, 06 August 2018 12:15
In my opinion, this was hand down the best nationals practice course I've ran at Crows this year. It most definitely required several elements that squarely come in to play at nationals:

- made great use of the Crows site to facilitate having a course with bunch of sweepers that we see on the square lots in Lincoln
- very important to learn the course during the walk and know the line in your head
- look ahead while driving
- learn to anticipate and set up for the next elements
- had some deceivingly quick sections that were easy to slow down too much for and not maximize your speed through them

We were not there on Sunday, but thanks again for the wonderfully appropriate course on Saturday!


Why can't people just do this Wink


Happy Motoring,
Kurt
13' Snowfalkens
Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122186 is a reply to message #122179] Mon, 06 August 2018 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pault1 is currently offline  pault1   United States
Messages: 947
Registered: October 2005
Location: San Remote
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
tony_rod wrote on Mon, 06 August 2018 10:33
Was instructing at Starting Line Saturday so can't speak to the course, but Sunday was good. The visuals on the middle/back before the tight turn around definitely required looking further ahead. Overall the course was fun, and drove better than it walked for sure.

The one thing to keep in mind is that courses are not supposed to be a game of memory or have some sort of visual trickery. This is about our ability to drive not our ability to decipher a codex. Visuals should be easy to pick out and follow. That's not always easy to accomplish as a course designer, I know. For weekends with Starting Line or other types of schools, we really should be focusing on allowing these new people to succeed. Getting a lot of experienced course designers to weigh in on the visuals is something that should always be encouraged and taken into account.


I second Tony on this. I did not think the course was horrible but there were lots of DNF's. I saw a bunch while photographing and while doing starter. I did a ride-along with an older gent just getting back into auto-x after decades off, because the trailer (think it was Mary, good call!) suggested this after he DNF'd twice. He would have DNF'd all 4 if I had not gone along, as he just wasn't seeing at least one of the elements. Saturday this was right after the big dog-leg L then R at the runway crossover, it was one of the wider offsets. Though from the drive-along it seemed like he might have done it elsewhere too.

It would behoove us to do some more chalking, and especially as noted when more beginners are present.

On a broader topic, it's my opinion that relying solely on the live.axti.me to inform people of their outcomes is leaning on a crutch that is broken. If the PA cannot be heard at the finish, and there is no FM radio, and no comm radio on the timeslips writer, then people can't find out about their DNF's or cones until axti.me updates. That is even when axti.me works; it has failed in the afternoon for the Marina event and Saturday's event.

I helped purchase the FM output and it's a quality solution that overcomes most issues of engine noise and wind, and distance from the PA, but it is not on the setup list for the trailer anymore apparently. Yesterday we tried to aim one PA at the grid so at least drivers could have a chance to hear their results, but because it was right next to the Reg shade it was loud there so the people sheltering from the sun re-aimed it away from the shade (and therefore away from the grid). And if you were in paddock, sorry out of luck! As with the comments about beginners and course, we have to remember that we have a significant chunk of non-veterans at every event. If there isn't a way to find out event status, worker calls, and so on when you're not near the trailer (or standing next to side pipes, F Mod cars, and so on) you may miss out or slow things down. The FM helps to solve this.


Paul T. Ford body, Yamaha power - describes my car pretty well, too! Smile Returned to racing the STi-STU but still that #35 you love
Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122187 is a reply to message #122186] Mon, 06 August 2018 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tony_rod is currently offline  tony_rod
Messages: 284
Registered: October 2015
Location: San Jose
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From: *hfc.comcastbusiness.net
pault1 wrote on Mon, 06 August 2018 14:13

On a broader topic, it's my opinion that relying solely on the live.axti.me to inform people of their outcomes is leaning on a crutch that is broken. If the PA cannot be heard at the finish, and there is no FM radio, and no comm radio on the timeslips writer, then people can't find out about their DNF's or cones until axti.me updates. That is even when axti.me works; it has failed in the afternoon for the Marina event and Saturday's event.

I helped purchase the FM output and it's a quality solution that overcomes most issues of engine noise and wind, and distance from the PA, but it is not on the setup list for the trailer anymore apparently. Yesterday we tried to aim one PA at the grid so at least drivers could have a chance to hear their results, but because it was right next to the Reg shade it was loud there so the people sheltering from the sun re-aimed it away from the shade (and therefore away from the grid). And if you were in paddock, sorry out of luck! As with the comments about beginners and course, we have to remember that we have a significant chunk of non-veterans at every event. If there isn't a way to find out event status, worker calls, and so on when you're not near the trailer (or standing next to side pipes, F Mod cars, and so on) you may miss out or slow things down. The FM helps to solve this.

We're not really relying on the live server for anything. It's just there and "unofficially" available for people to follow. Previously there was not anything other than the announcer. If you couldn't hear, then too bad (and also remember that the previous sound system was terrible). I think the FM transmitter is unreliable over a certain distance as well, but might be a good stop-gap. IIRC we sometimes have a computer available to see results. Certainly the reg computers can do it if completely necessary. They're all hooked to the same server. If there is even more question you can always ask the announcer.

Having the finish far from the trailer means that time slips should have a radio. Even then, for accurate cone counts, ask someone in the trailer.

As for beginners, etc, it all starts with instructors and getting those people hooked up with instructors. Sometimes we just don't have enough workers available for this. Sunday there were very light rungroups that had very minimal staff workstations, which forced slower overlap, etc. If we have more people working as instructors we have less available for course (which is far more important, imo).


'15 STX #1/87
Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122188 is a reply to message #122187] Mon, 06 August 2018 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jesvilla is currently offline  jesvilla   
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From: *lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net
I was only there sunday, but I thought the course was excellent.
If you looked ahead just enough everything came into view.
Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122189 is a reply to message #122188] Mon, 06 August 2018 23:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
futbolz is currently offline  futbolz   United States
Messages: 5
Registered: June 2017
First Gear

From: *dhcp.gvrb.ca.charter.com
You had to really know the course to not dnf. I liked the course and my 1 dnf was at the end... took the turn too wide. I was a passenger for one who could not find the course after the cross over, twice, he dnf both times in the middle of the course. After the cross over it was a sea of cones with 3 sets of pointer cones stacked down the course. Maybe less cones or use a different color of pointer cones. idk... but I like it. I do walk the course 3 times... always.



Carole #9 STUL
Re: SCCA Rounds 10 and 11 [message #122190 is a reply to message #122189] Tue, 07 August 2018 07:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
JourdanWithaU is currently offline  JourdanWithaU   United States
Messages: 552
Registered: August 2012
Location: United States
Sixth Gear

From: *guckenheimer.com
Sunday's course was much better than Saturday.

With preliminary results up, we have the following statistics.

Saturday: 558 runs, 77 DNFs (13.79%), 1 driver with no time*
Sunday: 476 runs, 46 DNFs (9.66%), 3 drivers with no time.

*Attempted 2 runs, DNF both.


Jourdan R.
2011 Subaru Impreza WRX
151 STM-SM
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