| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49518 is a reply to message #49333 ] |
Thu, 11 June 2009 16:58   |
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Registered: September 2005
Location: santa cruz
Messages: 275
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Yaris?....ah right right. Is that the one that runs on AAs? or is it AAAs? 
I remember the tricked out Echo. Whatever became of the pod racer?
Gavin
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| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49521 is a reply to message #49333 ] |
Thu, 11 June 2009 18:21 |
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Registered: May 2006
Location: El Cerrito
Messages: 112
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Okay, I'll bite. What makes the Yaris a better starting point for building a racecar than any other economy driving appliance with a ~100hp and a torsion beam rear suspension?
Brandon -
2005 Mazda 3s (former HS #401)- Rally White
1994 Mazda Miata R-package (STR #41) - also white
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| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49523 is a reply to message #49333 ] |
Thu, 11 June 2009 20:21 |
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Registered: December 2005
Location: vallejo, ca
Messages: 412
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yaris with 4AG (we have lots of spare motor) RWD.... woot! 
#11BSP '01 S2000-ITB : Some torque
#11EP '81 Toyota Starlet : the little car (retired)
CraftwerxConcepts.com for all your autox decal needs | Lubrify.com | AZN Motorsports | Jrwd | Genitrix
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| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49525 is a reply to message #49517 ] |
Thu, 11 June 2009 21:08 |
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Registered: May 2006
Location: Burlingame
Messages: 902
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| grantsfo wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:39 |
Best thing about them is exactly the response this post gets. 95% people wont believe how capable these cars are at speeds under say 80 MPH. I enjoyed driving my modified Echo more than my stock Boxster on mountain roads around my house.
Funniest thing is I had a 2.7 Boxster when I bought my 2001 Echo and did modifications on it. Its sort of a tradition that is developing. I think many people underestimate the capability of the Yaris. It wont be a class winning car but they are a hell of a lot of fun. I have owned nearly 30 sports cars/sedans from Hillman IMPS to Porsche 914's to 240Z to Sentra SEr to Honda CRX Si to Mazda RX2's and I can tell you the Echo/Yaris is a fun car if you get the right suspension and wheel/tire combo under it.
Just a couple vids.
Hilarious 1.3 liter Yaris at Greek Rally championships 1300 cc's with driver and co-driver going up hill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIVBvE-qQm8&feature=chann el_page
1.5 liter Echo/Yaris Cup cars in Canada ...yeehaw!
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/46a7e70f-a927-4dbf-a16c-9 9a400a0ca2a.htm
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Okay, so Grant, to what level do you plan on preparing this commuter Yaris, and are you intending to be competitive, or just go for the "Wow, that's quick for a Yaris" factor? In HS, you won't be competitive with Minis, in ST, you won't be competitive with Civic Sis, and I guess it's an FSP car. Can you compete against Focus and Civics in FSP?
Charlie
Old Age and Treachery
will overcome Youthful
Exuberance and Skill!
'89 Street Touring
Civic Si, "The Rat"
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| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49527 is a reply to message #49525 ] |
Thu, 11 June 2009 21:31 |
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Registered: December 2005
Location: Bonny Doon
Messages: 614
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| Charlie Davis wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 21:08 |
Okay, so Grant, to what level do you plan on preparing this commuter Yaris, and are you intending to be competitive, or just go for the "Wow, that's quick for a Yaris" factor? In HS, you won't be competitive with Minis, in ST, you won't be competitive with Civic Sis, and I guess it's an FSP car. Can you compete against Focus and Civics in FSP?
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Given I drive 1 or 2 SCCA events a year I dont know that it really matters? Vast majority of AX'er dont go to national championships and I think car would do fine in local competition. I have seen that Honda you drive I think you would be suprized at how close a good driver could put a well sorted Yaris to your car. Certainly Honda out clsses the Yaris but not by much. If you watch the Japanese tuner videos they have Yaris that run damn close to nicely sorted early model civics.
Has anyone effectively campaigned Yaris who knows anything about these cars? I have never seen one prepared even close to what my Echo was prepared. I disagree that a Yaris couldnt run against a Mini or a Focus and set respectable time.
Yaris is several hundred lbs lighter than all cars you mention with exception of the Honda. Impression I get from many is they put Yaris in similar category as a Smart car or a Hyundai. When car magazines road tested first small Scions which are based on Yaris platform they were amazed at slalom speeds they were getting from these cars
A another video from Japan of a stockish Vitz/Yaris on track.
http://www.truveo.com/%E5%B2%A1%E5%B1%B1%E5%9B%BD%E9%9A%9B-v itz-2009-1-15-vitz-%E3%81%9D%E3%81%AE%EF%BC%92/id/755332528
[Updated on: Fri, 12 June 2009 09:35]
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| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49540 is a reply to message #49521 ] |
Fri, 12 June 2009 09:20 |
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Registered: December 2005
Location: Bonny Doon
Messages: 614
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| autox_axela wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 18:21 |
Okay, I'll bite. What makes the Yaris a better starting point for building a racecar than any other economy driving appliance with a ~100hp and a torsion beam rear suspension?
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Fact that Yaris weighs anywhere from 200lbs to 500lbs less than anything in the segment, it has a real motor that is suprizingly powerful for a 1.5 liter, there is a huge motorsports aftermarket driven by this car with tons of suspension, motor, chassis reinforcments, prefab rollcages and driveline upgrades. Including a whole host of superchargers and turbos. In other markets the Yaris has come in 1.5 turbo trim as well.
If you havent driven a well sorted Yaris you just dont have context to the overall capability of these cars. The Yaris in stock form is terrible, softly sprung and they sit too high on skinny little wheels. Its typical US suspension tuning that kills them.
Slap a nice European made coilover suspension under the car, put a big rear bar under it, mount some lighthweight 14x7 or 15x7 wheels with 205 width tires and you would be amazed at what these cars can do.
Biggest issue will be gearing in AX.
Most exciting thing for me is I get new car smell for $11000 rather than buying a used car that smells like farts.
| gavin wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 16:58 |
I remember the tricked out Echo. Whatever became of the pod racer?
Gavin
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I pulled lots of the go fast stuff off, reinstalled mostly stock stuff and sold the Echo to a college kid for cheap.
[Updated on: Fri, 12 June 2009 11:24]
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| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49541 is a reply to message #49540 ] |
Fri, 12 June 2009 10:11 |
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Registered: September 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Messages: 1559
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Yaris Fit MINI
Weight 2295 2489 2568
fr. track 58.3 58.7 57.8
stock SSF 1.30 1.35 1.45
Charlie's looking at it from a different perspective, which is whether it's the best choice for any competition class. And he did acknowledge the fact that you might not care -- which apparently you don't, so it sounds like everyone is in violent agreement!
Have you looked at the new Ford Fiesta? I have no idea when it's coming out or whether the specs are available.
Yet another avatar photo by Bryan Heitkotter
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| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49545 is a reply to message #49333 ] |
Fri, 12 June 2009 10:51 |
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Registered: September 2005
Location: Alamo, CA
Messages: 3112
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In the world of "round peg in square hole" automobile tuning, I must say setting up a Yaris for autocross makes much more sense than setting up a SUV for "performance"...
I think it will be cool 
In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.
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| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49553 is a reply to message #49541 ] |
Fri, 12 June 2009 11:44 |
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Registered: December 2005
Location: Bonny Doon
Messages: 614
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Perhaps if its purely competition the first generation 2 door Toyota Echo coupe at 2080 lbs might actually may have an advantage over a 2568 lb Mini in a class where suspension mods are allowed? Just a thought. 
My Echo on slightly shorter springs sat lower than a stock SVT Focus. Door lines where lower too. As I have said its visual cues that make the Yaris look top heavy - the car has very little real weight up high. Toyota Engineers did wonders with that car and the chassis is very rigid. Rear suspension is weak but really it doesnt matter with a FWD car. TRD makes braces that reinforce suspension pickup points so at least rear suspension doesnt twist too much under hard cornering forces. For me rear was never the issue - its lack of LSD in front that would cause the light tire to spin a little too much. Big rear bar remedied that nicely.
If I hadnt developed a fast Echo I would likely be agreeing with all of you. When I drove the Echo stock I though it had no potential at all. Then I saw Yashio Factory Vitz video and thought Hmm that car is kicking butt and its built on same platform as my Echo.
Fiesta is going to be another cool little car. Is ford bringing it here soon?
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| Re: If rear swaybar and sport springs are manufacturers option is car stock? [message #49554 is a reply to message #49553 ] |
Fri, 12 June 2009 12:59 |
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Registered: September 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Messages: 1559
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| grantsfo wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 11:44 |
As I have said its visual cues that make the Yaris look top heavy - the car has very little real weight up high.
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The SSF is an objective measure of that, and it says that the CG height divided by the track width of a stock Yaris is higher than for a stock Fit or MINI. That means to get the same CG height with a modded suspension, you would have to lower the Yaris more than the Fit, and a lot more than the Cooper. Does the Yaris sit a lot higher off the ground on stock springs than the Cooper or the Fit? Toyota's published ground clearance on the Yaris is 5.5 inches. I'd be surprised if the Fit or Cooper sat much closer to the ground than that, although I did not find pusblished ground clearance on the Honda or MINI web sites.
Ford is touring their Fiesta ride & drive event around the country. There was one in Mountain View about 2 weeks ago. I would expect them to release the car pretty soon if they're doing that.
Yet another avatar photo by Bryan Heitkotter
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