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Home » Bay Area Autocross Forum » General Autocross Discussion » Preliminary 2013 National Dates
Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96669 is a reply to message #96664] Sat, 05 January 2013 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scottg is currently offline  scottg   United States
Messages: 196
Registered: October 2009
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Third Gear

From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
Are match tours drag-race starts like the Pros? I've been wanting to go to Zion for some time...

#40 STU Corvette FRC
Previously: STX RX-8
Avatar by mpozzi
Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96682 is a reply to message #96669] Sat, 05 January 2013 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jayroddrumz is currently offline  jayroddrumz   United States
Messages: 581
Registered: July 2010
Location: Livermore
Sixth Gear

From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
think i talked the wife into going to packwood with me aka.. vaction/ racin' lol haven't been there yet, but the pics look great.

Jason Rodriguez
Avatar phot credit. Paul Tibbels

Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96684 is a reply to message #96658] Sat, 05 January 2013 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justint5387 is currently offline  justint5387   United States
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Registered: June 2006
Location: Hayward
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
Mine...

El Toro Pro - Definite
Utah - Maybe
Packwood Pro - Maybe
Pro Finale - If i go to Packwood
Solo Nationals - Definite


FSP #88 Mazda3
STX #88 v1 MS3, v2 E36, v3 BRZ
STU #88 v1 370Z, v2 M3
AS #88 981S

Sandbagger #2
Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96685 is a reply to message #96669] Sat, 05 January 2013 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justint5387 is currently offline  justint5387   United States
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Location: Hayward
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
scottg wrote on Sat, 05 January 2013 12:33
Are match tours drag-race starts like the Pros? I've been wanting to go to Zion for some time...


Match tour does not have drag race start.


FSP #88 Mazda3
STX #88 v1 MS3, v2 E36, v3 BRZ
STU #88 v1 370Z, v2 M3
AS #88 981S

Sandbagger #2
Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96692 is a reply to message #96685] Sun, 06 January 2013 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grantsfo is currently offline  grantsfo   United States
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Registered: December 2005
Location: Central Cal
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
If you guys had to choose which event would you do San Diego or El Toro? I have never done Pro Solo. From videos it looks like fun.

89 Porsche Cayman S - FP/XP
Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96695 is a reply to message #96669] Sun, 06 January 2013 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gaha is currently offline  gaha   
Messages: 469
Registered: June 2007
Location: San Jose
Fifth Gear

From: *lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net
scottg wrote on Sat, 05 January 2013 12:33
Are match tours drag-race starts like the Pros? I've been wanting to go to Zion for some time...


No drag start, just a single course that doesn't change. The Match is done with one car going followed by the other. You have the advantage by going second so you can pay attention to the car ahead if they hit a cone. The Match is single elimination between you and the other driver, fastest PAX time moves to next bracket. Hitting a cone is 2 seconds, so being the second person on course, it becomes easier to notice if the guy head hit a cone.

The First round of the bracket is 2 runs, first run being a warm-up run. I think the first run is one run and then drive back to your pit, but I can't remember. All 64 drivers are then split into 4 groups of 16 drivers. Co-drivers are put into their own group, as well as the ladies in the same car. So the max would be the same car running in each group (2 open drivers and 2 ladies drivers) The 64 drivers are ranked by pax and then starting from the top, each go into the next group, so that the 1st pax driver in group 1, 2nd pax in group 2, and so on. The idea is that each group has an even slice of pax drivers, with adjustments made to co-drivers and ladies class.

Being traditionally at the top of my class, I found Sunday a bitter/sweet experience. The waiting around until about 2:30 Sunday till I drove just to be knocked out after the second round was disappointing. But it's not fair of me to a "Match" format due to me driving a CRX for the first time. I wanted more runs because how that car was setup, just didn't mesh with my driving style.

I look forward to trying the format in my own car.


Kraig Klippel
#62 STS 1994 White Miata

Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7 ucCJ_Vn58w
Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96696 is a reply to message #96692] Sun, 06 January 2013 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gaha is currently offline  gaha   
Messages: 469
Registered: June 2007
Location: San Jose
Fifth Gear

From: *lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net
grantsfo wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 09:55
If you guys had to choose which event would you do San Diego or El Toro? I have never done Pro Solo. From videos it looks like fun.


That is tough, they both are fun. If you are concerned with time, do the Pro. It's closer, and typically get done sooner than a tour. I'm typically home by 9-10 pm. San Diego is more time taxing and getting home about 12pm.

Car choose is sometimes a concern. It's not uncommon to hear people say they are concerned over the abuse, specifically on the drive-train, that the pro puts on the car. For example, I've been at a pro where ever CSP miata broke.

Both sites have great people and put on a great event. But as for food, I'd have to give it to the El Toro for their welcome dinner. It has been better than San Diego every time.

I love the format of the Pro, with the time off at night to talk, contemplate, and improve for performance on Sunday Morning. The ability to watch the video and data to find more time is really enjoyable. Especially at El Toro's surface, it's typical to see a full second per side faster on Sunday morning. Saturday is all about trying things and getting data as to what works, then bringing it on Sunday Morning.

As cool as the pro format is, Tours are a complete practice for Nationals. If you plan to go to Lincoln, do San Diego. If you never have been there, it's a large site that is one of the most dynamic sites. It's elevation is impressive where you have to setup correctly to climb said hill and then fun fast descends, which add to it off camber corners that adds additional difficulty. Unfortunately, the asphalt is getting old and breaking up. It's not un-common to have to change the course in the middle of the day due to break-up. Also, tighten up the car cause the surface will make the car be loose. I've had to put alot of front sway bar to keep the rear end under me.


Kraig Klippel
#62 STS 1994 White Miata

Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7 ucCJ_Vn58w
Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96699 is a reply to message #96696] Sun, 06 January 2013 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
everbruin is currently offline  everbruin   
Messages: 2939
Registered: March 2006
Location: san francisco
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CONTRIBUTOR

From: *lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net
love zion natl park; fyi its kolob canyon section is by i15; i've some pics at http://justinliew.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=215
the main section is bigger and more popular http://justinliew.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=168


-An; str 95 m3
http://lh4.ggpht.com/everbruin/SJk0MZaxxMI/AAAAAAAABDY/y3789jgyezY/s144/avat160.jpg
Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96706 is a reply to message #96695] Sun, 06 January 2013 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
red5racing is currently offline  red5racing   
Messages: 561
Registered: May 2008
Location: Los Altos
Sixth Gear

From: *lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net
gaha wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 10:25
.. fastest PAX time moves to next bracket...


Making pax part of the competition process isn't good. There's no published statistical basis whatsoever for the current pax index.
Re: Preliminary 2013 National Dates [message #96709 is a reply to message #96706] Sun, 06 January 2013 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
mwood   United States
Messages: 5188
Registered: September 2005
Location: Alamo, CA
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From: *dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net
red5racing wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 18:02
gaha wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 10:25
.. fastest PAX time moves to next bracket...


Making pax part of the competition process isn't good. There's no published statistical basis whatsoever for the current pax index.


Yeah, pax makes for engineered comptition. But, for the Match format, I think it is more about the fun factor. And pax will still recognize really great individual performances, just within a fuzzy bandwidth.

Where it gets even more interesting is the RT classes, which are using a .975 multiplier...

It doesn't make me not want to play, it just makes me look at these events in a different way than I would a Tour or Nationals.





[Updated on: Sun, 06 January 2013 19:53]

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