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Home » Bay Area Autocross Forum » Northern California Events » Round 7 results are posted
Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79951 is a reply to message #79950] Tue, 07 June 2011 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
walk   United States
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Registered: September 2009
Location: Pothole-uma, CA
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From: *dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net
that's what you get when you add 900lb to an Elise and put crappy tires on it? Wink

Jeff W.
1994 Miata #94 E/Street
Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79952 is a reply to message #79909] Tue, 07 June 2011 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
race2win is currently offline  race2win   United States
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Registered: November 2005
Location: San Ramon, CA
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
mwood wrote on Mon, 06 June 2011 19:08
I agree with Alex 100%. First three runs count, anything after is a fun run. I feel very strongly that giving more than three comp runs really dilutes a very basic element of the sport...give as many runs as time allows, let everyone work on their skills and have fun...and only count the "real" runs, i.e. 1-3. Wink


Agree 100% with Mike & Alex. Anyone can post a fast time if given enough chances as you memorize the course, but it's a challenge to post a fast time in 3 runs when the pressure is on. It also puts more importance on the course walk, to me one of the most important aspects of being fast, something a lot of people don't spend enough time doing (especially if they know they are going to get 4-6 runs).

walk
You could always park your car after your 3rd run, if that's what you want

I think you're right, that idea is likely to be unpopular... Already the sport has a bit of a reputation (deserved or not) for being a poor value in terms of dollars per minutes of racing.


Nobody is saying they don't WANT to take their 4th runs, just that they shouldn't be counted. You are right, it may not be popular, but to me this is the SCCA where at the top level of the sport you are measured by your fastest of 3 runs. If being competitive is important we should be striving to reach that top level at a Tour/Pro/Nationals, only counting the first 3 runs will prepare drivers better for that.

There are other clubs that offer 4-6 runs for those that put a premium on "dollars per minute of racing", what were saying is that with SFR SCCA you could still get 4-5 runs per event + fun runs, but by counting only the first 3 you would also be challenging yourself to be a better driver.


Drag racing is for fast cars
Autocrossing is for fast drivers

Mark Scroggs
2013 Ford Focus ST #49/149 GS

stranoparts.com, Bridgestone Tires

2014 & 2015 GS National Champion
Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79954 is a reply to message #79952] Tue, 07 June 2011 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Impala SS AutocroSSer   United States
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Registered: September 2005
Location: San Jose CA
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From: *dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net
race2win wrote on Tue, 07 June 2011 10:41
[
Nobody is saying they don't WANT to take their 4th runs, just that they shouldn't be counted. You are right, it may not be popular, but to me this is the SCCA where at the top level of the sport you are measured by your fastest of 3 runs. If being competitive is important we should be striving to reach that top level at a Tour/Pro/Nationals, only counting the first 3 runs will prepare drivers better for that.


FWIW, what some other regions do (I believe NorthWest Region up in WA state among them) is offer more than 3 runs to everyone. In MOST classes, all the runs count. However, for the "Nationals types" they run in a separate indexed class. For that class only they just score the first 3 runs and the rest are fun runs.




Ed Runnion

2016 Scion FR-S, SSC 116 "CU TGERS"
1996 Chevy Impala SS, CP 63 "T56 SS"

Former : HS Fiesta ST, DS/FS Genesis Coupe, STC Civic Si, STS Acura Integra, STX Subaru WRX Wagon
Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79955 is a reply to message #79952] Tue, 07 June 2011 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GlenAnderson is currently offline  GlenAnderson   United States
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Registered: September 2005
Location: Santa Clara
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From: 12.186.109*
race2win wrote on Tue, 07 June 2011 10:41
mwood wrote on Mon, 06 June 2011 19:08
I agree with Alex 100%. First three runs count, anything after is a fun run. I feel very strongly that giving more than three comp runs really dilutes a very basic element of the sport...give as many runs as time allows, let everyone work on their skills and have fun...and only count the "real" runs, i.e. 1-3. Wink


Agree 100% with Mike & Alex. Anyone can post a fast time if given enough chances as you memorize the course, but it's a challenge to post a fast time in 3 runs when the pressure is on. It also puts more importance on the course walk, to me one of the most important aspects of being fast, something a lot of people don't spend enough time doing (especially if they know they are going to get 4-6 runs).

walk
You could always park your car after your 3rd run, if that's what you want

I think you're right, that idea is likely to be unpopular... Already the sport has a bit of a reputation (deserved or not) for being a poor value in terms of dollars per minutes of racing.


Nobody is saying they don't WANT to take their 4th runs, just that they shouldn't be counted. You are right, it may not be popular, but to me this is the SCCA where at the top level of the sport you are measured by your fastest of 3 runs. If being competitive is important we should be striving to reach that top level at a Tour/Pro/Nationals, only counting the first 3 runs will prepare drivers better for that.

There are other clubs that offer 4-6 runs for those that put a premium on "dollars per minute of racing", what were saying is that with SFR SCCA you could still get 4-5 runs per event + fun runs, but by counting only the first 3 you would also be challenging yourself to be a better driver.


Right, but at the same time, when someone is spending $1300 on a set of tires, they are going to be less inclined to go out and take runs that really don't matter, effectively limiting them to three runs.

Fun runs, or runs that don't count are not racing, so your "dollars per minute of racing" drastically increases when you limit the number of runs that are counted.

Lastly, doing it how nationals does it (3 runs) has proven to not be sustainable to a club that gets most of its revenue from people who will never take a trip to nationals and likely won't run a tour if it isn't local. And, just because they aren't national drivers, doesn't mean that they don't value the fun that comes with the competition. The vast majority of entrants at a local event want the maximum number of competition runs.

[Updated on: Tue, 07 June 2011 11:26]

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Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79956 is a reply to message #79852] Tue, 07 June 2011 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ophitoxaemia is currently offline  Ophitoxaemia   United States
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From: 12.234.39*
The strongest argument to score only 3 runs is to reduce required tire cost. If you've got expensive tires, 5 run events almost double your minimum cost. (Personally, tires are for using up, and damn the cost)

Suggesting that scoring 4 runs makes us less competitive at Nationals might have some merit, although the different surface and types of course designs we use certainly have a much bigger effect.

Scoring all runs has the benefit of reducing cones hit (as competitors on a freebie 4th run are more likely to go all out for scratch time bragging rights).

Scoring all runs gives you more practice taking competition runs. This is the strongest, and winning argument, for me.

James
OSP - Opinion: Surplus Practice
Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79959 is a reply to message #79956] Tue, 07 June 2011 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
everbruin is currently offline  everbruin   Finland
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From: 192.100.106*
I've been to only 1 sc mtg so can't vote, but I think nwr's solution may be a good compromise if sfr's pax class wants only 3 official. And is it more work for result tallying?

-An; str 95 m3
http://lh4.ggpht.com/everbruin/SJk0MZaxxMI/AAAAAAAABDY/y3789jgyezY/s144/avat160.jpg
Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79960 is a reply to message #79959] Tue, 07 June 2011 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
1paxed_up_TT is currently offline  1paxed_up_TT   United States
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Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont
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From: *altera.com
hmmm. I don't mind 3 runs provided we have a test course to dial in the car first.

Eugene

#10 T2 FSP Silver '87 Mazda 323 - 2200lb/85hp
#10 BSP Gray '01 Audi TTR - 3300lb/270hp
#510 T2 DSP Silver '96 Audi A4Q - 3200lb/180hp
Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79962 is a reply to message #79960] Tue, 07 June 2011 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hracer is currently offline  Hracer   United States
Messages: 283
Registered: December 2006
Location: San Francisco
Fourth Gear

From: 64.125.137*
1paxed_up_TT wrote on Tue, 07 June 2011 12:33
hmmm. I don't mind 3 runs provided we have a test course to dial in the car first.

I don't mind 3 runs provided we have 2 hours to walk the course. Very Happy I'm the type that needs lots of course walks to execute well.

GlenAnderson wrote on Tue, 07 June 2011 11:23
Lastly, doing it how nationals does it (3 runs) has proven to not be sustainable to a club that gets most of its revenue from people who will never take a trip to nationals and likely won't run a tour if it isn't local. And, just because they aren't national drivers, doesn't mean that they don't value the fun that comes with the competition. The vast majority of entrants at a local event want the maximum number of competition runs.

x2 There are pros and cons, but I think this is the practical reason that should probably be the most important.


Alex
#181 SSR
Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79966 is a reply to message #79962] Tue, 07 June 2011 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
red5racing is currently offline  red5racing   United States
Messages: 561
Registered: May 2008
Location: Los Altos
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From: *houston.hp.com
+1 for 3 runs only. Have fun runs at the end of the day.

Re: Round 7 results are posted [message #79970 is a reply to message #79966] Tue, 07 June 2011 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
segfault is currently offline  segfault   United States
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Registered: April 2008
Location: Campbell
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
I vote we do a special local class. All you guys who want 3 runs only can stick yourselves there and degrid after your 3rd run. The rest of us will do 4.

--Isaac
SFR Chief of Timing and Computer Magic
SM 71
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