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Home » Bay Area Autocross Forum » Tech/Setup » Overly Cooled Engine Oil is Bad. (another lunch on the line, but I'm certain to win...)
Overly Cooled Engine Oil is Bad. [message #121709] Sun, 25 March 2018 14:24 Go to next message
atcovan is currently offline  atcovan   
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From: *lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net
Friend of mine thinks adding a HUGE oil cooler to his car is just the right thing to do. I say, "Better get a Mocal thermostatically controlled by-pass valve, or you'll have a lot of trouble with fuel dilution." He just doesn't get it... The oil needs to be hot for a good while in order for the water condensation, acids and volatile stuff (gasoline) to evaporate through the pcv system and be burned off. Am I wrong? Do I owe another lunch to Joe W.? I should also add, he drives like a snail and his work is only 5 miles away. He'd be better off with an electric car, as would his exhaust system, but that's another lunch debate.

Jim
Re: Overly Cooled Engine Oil is Bad. [message #121711 is a reply to message #121709] Mon, 26 March 2018 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
G_Ride is currently offline  G_Ride   
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From: *dedicated.static.sonic.net
There isn't a reason to have an oil cooler if your oil temps never reach dangerously high levels. You want your oil temperature within the operating range as soon as possible. Your friend's oil temps will stay below operating range for longer, which is more harmful than good.

--Erik
2013 Subaru BRZ
68 STX
Re: Overly Cooled Engine Oil is Bad. [message #121712 is a reply to message #121711] Mon, 26 March 2018 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
atcovan is currently offline  atcovan   
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From: *lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net
My thoughts, exactly, thanks! I suppose air-cooled cars and racers can benefit, but surely those use thermostats.

Jim
Re: Overly Cooled Engine Oil is Bad. [message #121719 is a reply to message #121712] Tue, 27 March 2018 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Weinstein is currently offline  Joe Weinstein   
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
You are right that oil needs enough heat to dissolve those contaminants. The oil viscosity specified for the motor is based on the viscosity at the designed operating temperature. Overcooled means overthick, over-viscous, more fluid friction, and less flow through the smaller gaps. The lubricity of motor oils is best at about 185 degrees. The magic perfect oil system would keep the oil at one temperature all the time, and 185 degrees would be ideal, but any one temperature would allow a simpler single-viscosity plain-base oil. The best oil cooling system would *not* cool the oil until it got about 185 degrees.
So unless this friend ever gets his oil significantly hotter than that, like racing where it goes way over 210, more cooling is like adding 6" of extra thumbtack protection thickness on the soles of his shoes.
Re: Overly Cooled Engine Oil is Bad. [message #121720 is a reply to message #121719] Tue, 27 March 2018 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justint5387 is currently offline  justint5387   United States
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
Oil/Water heat exchanger in most scenario works better than a standalone oil cooler.

FSP #88 Mazda3
STX #88 v1 MS3, v2 E36, v3 BRZ
STU #88 370Z

Sandbagger #2

[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2018 22:31]

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Re: Overly Cooled Engine Oil is Bad. [message #121721 is a reply to message #121720] Tue, 27 March 2018 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
atcovan is currently offline  atcovan   
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From: *lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net
Hi Justin. My MR2, turbo Supra and XR4Ti each had factory oil to water heat exchangers and I never saw water temp above normal. I suppose if oil and water temps are synchronized, it makes for a happy engine. I also used water-wetter and the turbo car's coolant tanks stopped burping/bubbling after a run.

Jim
Re: Overly Cooled Engine Oil is Bad. [message #121725 is a reply to message #121721] Thu, 29 March 2018 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pault1 is currently offline  pault1   United States
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
atcovan wrote on Tue, 27 March 2018 21:57
Hi Justin. My MR2, turbo Supra and XR4Ti each had factory oil to water heat exchangers and I never saw water temp above normal. I suppose if oil and water temps are synchronized, it makes for a happy engine. I also used water-wetter and the turbo car's coolant tanks stopped burping/bubbling after a run.


I suppose that synchronized temps isn't bad but the objective is to have /enough/ cooling for each system. If your friend has a race car and has high recorded oil temps, then he may be right about needing more, but I agree with you and think a correctly controlled (thermostat) oil cooler is better to reach optimum temps sooner. If it's a daily driver and never raced, then it's a waste of money and might be worse.

The Taurus SHO with an added Quaife would also need a trans oil cooler for track use, especially if the power had been increased. My pal with one of those chose to plumb in an extra oil cooler and have an electrical on/off switch for track days, leaving it off all of the rest of the time.

As far as burping/bubbling after a run, another possibility is that you have what I recently had, a head gasket leak from the turbo into the cooling loop. But if it went away like you suggested then it sounds like what you said, the water wetter improved things, though it might have been cooling well enough during elevated RPM/water pump flow and just bubbled at idle. Just rambling now, I'll stop. Rolling Eyes


Paul T. Ford body, Yamaha power - describes my car pretty well, too! Smile Returned to racing the STi-STU but still that #35 you love
Re: Overly Cooled Engine Oil is Bad. [message #121726 is a reply to message #121725] Thu, 29 March 2018 14:21 Go to previous message
atcovan is currently offline  atcovan   
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From: *lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net
Hi Paul. The turbo cars would gurgle with the engine off after a run, and I always let them idle for a minute, or so, but never after a trip to the grocery store Smile I'm certain the steam pockets in the heads went away with water-wetter, so I'm a believer in that product. My friend doesn't race his car, but he's of typical ricer mindset (even at over 50 yo) with, of all things, a Buick LeSabre he thinks is such a catch. I expect some day he will have a tow hook and 4" exhaust outlet, or something equally silly. I say, "Leave it be and save your sheckles!" A good transmission cooler is all he needs.

Jim
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