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Home » Bay Area Autocross Forum » General Autocross Discussion » Data from your autocross runs
Data from your autocross runs [message #120671] Thu, 04 May 2017 19:21 Go to next message
pault1 is currently offline  pault1   United States
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From: 204.52.135*
OK, just coming up to speed with SoloStorm, but a little behind the curve here (puns intended), looking for comments:
What do you do with your data?
1) Look at it between runs

2) Look at it later

3) Share it with others later - if Y, where? What parts do you upload?

4) How has data helped you? Has sharing helped too?


Paul T. Ford body, Yamaha power - describes my car pretty well, too! Smile Returned to racing the STi-STU but still that #35 you love
Re: Data from your autocross runs [message #120675 is a reply to message #120671] Fri, 05 May 2017 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tony_rod is currently offline  tony_rod
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From: *hfc.comcastbusiness.net
It's useful if you have something to compare against. If it's just you, you'll get less out of it.

I don't really pay attention to data, it doesn't do much for me. I am more of a visual/seat of the pants driver and video is far more useful to me.

Other people I have driven with have done various things with it. Between runs, later, share, etc... It has definitely helped them figure out where the time is, and now they can go take a run and identify problems. Without having to consult the data. For that, I think it is invaluable.


'03 MR2-S, #86 E Street

[Updated on: Fri, 05 May 2017 17:09]

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Re: Data from your autocross runs [message #120677 is a reply to message #120675] Sat, 06 May 2017 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
velandia is currently offline  velandia   United States
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Registered: April 2009
Location: Folsom, CA
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From: *lightspeed.flsmca.sbcglobal.net
I've used SoloStorm for a couple years now. Here are some observations:

> One useful activity is to look at video between runs - it helps me to recall what areas need to be improved, where the car over/understeered, etc.
> when you have two drivers there are pros and cons: pro: gather more data con: less time to look at data between runs, and need to determine whose data to look at in between alternating driver runs.
> There's a big advantage in gathering data on ProSolo events: you have all evening to look at day1 run comparisons, and especially useful when you have a co-driver. This can help you identify where you can gain time (fast section times across all the runs) so you are able to better execute on the following day.
> I think data usefulness depends on just how much analysis you're willing to put in. (means that between runs, there may not be enough time to really get anything useful - esp at local events). There's plenty of time to analyze after the event - which may help you to identify overall areas for improvement for the next event.
> one of my goals is to always stay on the edge of the traction circle, data tells me the extent to which I'm able to accomplish that goal.
> One eye-opener was time gained by minimizing distance - if you're able to take two runs comparing distance traveled (can be done with the "sections" widget) you'll find the amount of time that can be saved by driving the tighter line
> I've not uploaded data or compared with anyone other than my co-driver, I think it would be useful to share that data - but don't know exactly how/where to do this.

Big caveat: autox is still about the ability to focus and execute a run which in my mind is the art of driving the smoothest, fastest arc at the edge of the traction circle without hitting our orange friends. So you gotta be careful that you dont let the analytical side of your brain take over during the run, take you "out of the moment" and screw everything up! Very Happy


Live and Love

Maurice Velandia
93 MR2 Turbo Hardtop CS
95 MR2 GenIII hardtop SSM


Re: Data from your autocross runs [message #120679 is a reply to message #120677] Sun, 07 May 2017 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pault1 is currently offline  pault1   
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From: *lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net
velandia wrote on Sat, 06 May 2017 23:20
I've used SoloStorm for a couple years now. Here are some observations:

> One useful activity is to look at video between runs - it helps me to recall what areas need to be improved, where the car over/understeered, etc.
> when you have two drivers there are pros and cons: pro: gather more data con: less time to look at data between runs, and need to determine whose data to look at in between alternating driver runs.
> There's a big advantage in gathering data on ProSolo events: you have all evening to look at day1 run comparisons, and especially useful when you have a co-driver. This can help you identify where you can gain time (fast section times across all the runs) so you are able to better execute on the following day.
> I think data usefulness depends on just how much analysis you're willing to put in. (means that between runs, there may not be enough time to really get anything useful - esp at local events). There's plenty of time to analyze after the event - which may help you to identify overall areas for improvement for the next event.
> one of my goals is to always stay on the edge of the traction circle, data tells me the extent to which I'm able to accomplish that goal.
> One eye-opener was time gained by minimizing distance - if you're able to take two runs comparing distance traveled (can be done with the "sections" widget) you'll find the amount of time that can be saved by driving the tighter line
> I've not uploaded data or compared with anyone other than my co-driver, I think it would be useful to share that data - but don't know exactly how/where to do this.


Thanks! great comments. Yeah, I found a run where the section split showed I did higher average speed but actually slower on time, and the "feet traveled" showed how much shorter in distance the better path had been. Eye opener indeed. And since my car is better on acceleration traction but poorer in cornering g's vs. immediate competition of nicely tuned BMW's, I have to learn to use that more.
Quote:
Big caveat: autox is still about the ability to focus and execute a run which in my mind is the art of driving the smoothest, fastest arc at the edge of the traction circle without hitting our orange friends. So you gotta be careful that you dont let the analytical side of your brain take over during the run, take you "out of the moment" and screw everything up! Very Happy

Except when the non-analytical side of the brain is running the RED MIST subroutine, and no amount of analytical can save you then! Embarassed Rolling Eyes


Paul T. Ford body, Yamaha power - describes my car pretty well, too! Smile Returned to racing the STi-STU but still that #35 you love
Re: Data from your autocross runs [message #120680 is a reply to message #120675] Sun, 07 May 2017 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pault1 is currently offline  pault1   
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From: *lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net
tony_rod wrote on Fri, 05 May 2017 17:06
It's useful if you have something to compare against. If it's just you, you'll get less out of it.

I don't really pay attention to data, it doesn't do much for me. I am more of a visual/seat of the pants driver and video is far more useful to me.

Other people I have driven with have done various things with it. Between runs, later, share, etc... It has definitely helped them figure out where the time is, and now they can go take a run and identify problems. Without having to consult the data. For that, I think it is invaluable.


Appreciate your feedback, thanks. I have been seat of the pants but coming back from a years long hiatus found the pants are a little, uh, numb, and the traction circle view is visual enough to immediately help there. Looking to get further with the section splits feature, and it ties the small video in so that you can see at least the path you took. If you play the full video though you can hear the cones thwack / driver cursing, entertaining but not that helpful. "Oh, that's the one that knocked the splitter loose!" Frown


Paul T. Ford body, Yamaha power - describes my car pretty well, too! Smile Returned to racing the STi-STU but still that #35 you love
Re: Data from your autocross runs [message #120722 is a reply to message #120671] Fri, 26 May 2017 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pault1 is currently offline  pault1   
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
Has anyone compared your run times in your capture package with the run times in real world? I did this and found that there are definitely differences. Comments appreciated!

From the recent AAS event:
SoloStorm added (compared to timer)
0.071
0.019
0.037
0.086
-0.378

that was runs 5 though 1. No changes were made in Start, Finish, or Stage GPS positions, which were taken as recommended (do Start, then Finish point ASAP, then walk the course so there is less drift in GPS positions). And the route through the course was pretty much the same. The Finish for run 1 (large negative variance) might have been driven on a slightly different line, but the Finish line at this event was pretty much straight across and I think I took the Finish GPS point on the outer side of the course where I figured I would be driving. Maybe 10 feet laterally different?

FWIW fastest run had smallest difference compared to timing equipment though that could be chance. Most differences were under 0.1 with exception of that first one. A tenth of a second at 40 MPH is about 6 feet, and GPS is set to update in tenth of second (10 Hz). This, IIRC, is similar in size to the best certainty of location with this type of GPS setup.


Paul T. Ford body, Yamaha power - describes my car pretty well, too! Smile Returned to racing the STi-STU but still that #35 you love
Re: Data from your autocross runs [message #120723 is a reply to message #120722] Fri, 26 May 2017 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
red5racing is currently offline  red5racing   United States
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From: 12.33.222*
Can't say I bother marking the start and finish anymore, but the margin of error you're getting seems pretty good from what I remember except for run 1. I did generally get better results after switching to my DL1 and ditching the QStarz puck.

Anyone used Solostorm cloud? It would be cool if we started to share data.

Re: Data from your autocross runs [message #120724 is a reply to message #120723] Fri, 26 May 2017 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
atcovan is currently offline  atcovan   
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From: *lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net
Paul, you mentioned GPS drift and the need to get course walks done quickly. Has anyone actually looked at his/her GPS device, then again after several minutes or hours to confirm this drift? I assumed GPS was spot-on accurate throughout the day.

Jim
Re: Data from your autocross runs [message #120742 is a reply to message #120724] Fri, 02 June 2017 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pault1 is currently offline  pault1   
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From: *hsd1.ca.comcast.net
atcovan wrote on Fri, 26 May 2017 15:33
Paul, you mentioned GPS drift and the need to get course walks done quickly. Has anyone actually looked at his/her GPS device, then again after several minutes or hours to confirm this drift? I assumed GPS was spot-on accurate throughout the day.


Jim,
They didn't say do walks quickly, they said to get your start and finish done close together because the 15 minutes of course walk could cause some drift. I'm not sure which drift they're saying, though the satellites in sight may change over that period of time.

With older GPS I messed with it some (not this gear) and since the generic accuracy was like 30 feet things would move around. You could actually see it show that you had a horizontal or vertical speed while you were standing still, because it was counting where it thought you were now minus where you were last, seconds ago.

With this gear I have not checked into absolute accuracy, the gov't says:

Arrow Recent FAA data shows their high quality, single-frequency GPS receivers attaining horizontal
accuracy of ≤1.891 m (6.2 ft.), 95% of the time.

(If you use dual frequency "survey grade" gear you can get it down to a few centimeters.) But even that data means that at any instant you can be 6 to 12 feet (+6, then -6) different than you were last time you checked. If the system you use averages data over a period of time then accuracy improves, but we're in moving cars so that does not help us.

I am not convinced that a DL1 has any better GPS than the QStarz pucks, which are reading ten times/second. It may be that the DL1 processes it differently. If someone wants to run both in the same car I will volunteer mine to ride along.

If you don't pre-mark your start and finish, the system doesn't automagically start recording when you stage, which to me is a huge benefit.

Anybody else have any comparative data on runs versus datalogger? I guess I will look into Solostorm cloud, don't know about it.


Paul T. Ford body, Yamaha power - describes my car pretty well, too! Smile Returned to racing the STi-STU but still that #35 you love

[Updated on: Fri, 02 June 2017 19:58]

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Re: Data from your autocross runs [message #120751 is a reply to message #120742] Tue, 06 June 2017 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
tony_rod is currently offline  tony_rod
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Registered: October 2015
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From: *hfc.comcastbusiness.net
The QStarz puck works fine but in 10Hz for autocross, it's not very good at all. The reason for that is because DGPS is disabled in the 10Hz position, so you end up getting jagged tracking lines. The solution is to change the 1Hz setting to 5Hz - see this blog post.

The DL1 is a true 20Hz GPS, so it's even more accurate. Coupled with the other data feeds you can justify the cost, however for entry level telemetry you cant beat the Android/SoloStorm combo.


'03 MR2-S, #86 E Street
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